Advice For Your Ongoing Daily Grind
Insights from the “Lead2Serve” Podcast
Season 5. Episode 10
Navigating the Long Haul: Sustaining Passion and Vision in Ministry
As the host of the Lead to Serve podcast and the pastor of Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado, I have the joy and privilege of serving God faithfully day in and day out. One aspect of my service is the Lead2Serve Podcast. In a recent episode, I sat down with Pastor Bob Claycamp, a seasoned pastor with a wealth of experience, to tackle a question that resonates with many leaders in the church today: How do we maintain passion, vision, and leadership after 20 to 40 years in ministry?
The Reality of Ministerial Fatigue
In our discussion, Pastor Bob and I addressed a common yet often unspoken reality: the feeling of being tired and worn down after decades of service. It’s a normal part of the role, and acknowledging it is the first step toward renewal and refreshment. We emphasized the necessity of pacing oneself and the critical practice of taking regular breaks to prevent burnout.
The Proportionate Nature of Challenges
One of the insights we shared was the deep essence of challenges in ministry. Whether you’re leading a small congregation or a larger church, the difficulties you face are often scaled to match. It’s a reminder that no pastor is alone in their struggles, and the size of one’s church does not exempt them from the trials that come with shepherding a flock.
Enduring Through Seasons
Every pastor will encounter challenging seasons. Pastor Bob and I discussed the importance of endurance during these times. We talked about assessing your current season of ministry and being open to the possibility that a change in role or approach might be necessary. It’s about adapting while staying true to your calling.
Faithfulness Over Comparison
A key takeaway from our conversation was the encouragement for pastors to maintain faithfulness to their calling and resist the temptation to compare themselves to others. Each pastor’s journey is unique, and comparison can be a thief of joy and satisfaction in one’s work.
Practical Insights for Longevity in Ministry
Throughout our podcast, Pastor Bob and I shared practical insights and advice drawn from our own experiences. We emphasized the importance of community, mentorship, and continuous learning. We also touched on the value of self-care and setting healthy boundaries, which are essential for sustaining a long and fruitful ministry.
The path of pastoral ministry is a marathon, not a sprint. For those who have dedicated decades to serving others, maintaining passion and vision is both a challenge and an opportunity for growth. My conversation with Pastor Bob Claycamp on the Lead2Serve podcast was a time of how to navigate this journey with grace and perseverance.
Steady on in the calling of God upon your life. He is your strength!
FULL TRANSCRIPT UNEDITED
Intro VO:
Welcome to today’s broadcast of Lead2Serve, a leadership podcast with Ed Taylor.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Welcome again to another episode here in Season 5 of the Lead2Serve podcast. My name is Ed Taylor. I’m the pastor of Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado. I’m your host. Lead2Serve, the podcast started in my heart. Like, I wanted to invite people into a conversation about ministry. I have a passion about developing servants and leaders, pouring into pastors and elders and just anybody, really. Discipleship is a privilege that God has given to me that I really like doing in a variety of different ways, leadership development, in particular. So thank you guys for tuning in for sharing the podcast, for your feedback, for your ideas.
Speaker 2
Actually, today is an episode where we’re using an idea that was sent into us, in particular, and we’re going to read through some of the questions that this brother gave to us so we can talk through them. You know, our goal is to help you grow in your servant leadership so that you will glorify God in everything that you do. And you know the tag, it says, the better servant you are, the better leader you’ll become. And the better leader you’ll become will broaden and deepen your ability to serve the Lord and others so much better. Right? You “love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and you love your neighbor as yourself” (Luke 10:27). So we designed these times like as if you were, well, we’re literally are sitting across the table with two microphones in front of us talking like you would if you were in my office or at our staff meeting or at a pastor’s meeting. Talking ministry; drawing from the Word of God; giving practical principles. And that’s where we are today for Season 5. One of the big pieces of feedback we had is to “have someone in studio with me.” And so the whole season, up until this episode, we have Pastor Bob Claycamp with us. Welcome again, Bob.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Great. It’s a privilege to be here.
Speaker 2
Appreciate you being here every week to have these topics discussed and prayerfully considered. And let’s just jump right into today’s episode to spend some time on it. I got a text from a friend of mine not too long ago, just wanting, “Hey, I got an idea for your podcast.” And I go, “Send it my way.” And so let me read what he said in an edited form. He said, “The common question is, ‘What would you tell your younger self?’” Which is…you know, I’m a little bit older now, so I would tell my younger self a few things. “It seems it’s often intended to help the younger pastor who’s just starting out or early in his ministry.” And I can see that perspective for sure. “How about the same question asked to a pastor who’s been doing it for 30 or 40 years with the pastor who’s near about that 20-year mark, the one who’s slowing down and grinding a bit without all the standard answers of endurance and perseverance,” although we will give those answers, “how do you keep leading with passion, vision, and keep being an example in Spirit, keeping the flame burning bright since it’s been burning so long? Not using delegation to hide the fact that the leader may just not feel like doing things anymore?” I’m like, “Wow, there’s quite a bit in this question,” Bob, talking to your younger self, but the perspective’s a little different. Not trying to help a young guy get ready for what’s up ahead, but for a guy like this, like my friend describes here, that “slowing down, grinding a bit” without any clarification, right? Because I didn’t clarify what “grinding” means. And “not using delegation to hide the fact that he doesn’t want to, he may not feel like doing things anymore.” So you’ve got a guy here…you are…you and I have been doing it for a few years. You’ve definitely been doing it for 30 to 40 years. I haven’t. So my perspective would be 25 years. But what do you tell a guy? What do you tell your younger self? What do you tell the younger pastor that’s 20 years into it that is “slowing down and grinding a bit?”
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Well, first of all, I would affirm the fact that as we get older, we don’t have the necessary energy or strength that we had when were in our 30’s or so. And that’s how does the Lord see that? Does he “understand our frame”? The Bible says he does understand our frame. “He knows our frame.” “He knows we’re just dust” (Psalm 103:14). And going over the initial call and asking questions. “What was it that was so exciting about when you first started? What were the expectations? What were the dreams? What were the things that just seemed to stir you and your wife in the midst of it?” And so now here you are, 20-25 years later, and you look back and “when did you notice things felt like they were slowing down?”And so just…questions. Because I’m walking into a story that I don’t know and because the surface story is not necessarily the real story. So you’re…through the questions…and Jesus used questions all the time as he was ministering to disciples and others…and I’ve learned this from you being here these four-and-a-half years as well, because you’re a good one “to ask questions.” Yeah. Forcing answers. But then just to say, “where did things change?” And many times because of the pain, because of the hurt, because of the shock or disappointment, all of a sudden, a new layer of guardedness came in and thinking, like, “you know, I’m not sure how long I can keep doing this.” And those kind of thoughts start rolling around. And if you don’t deal with them right there, you just leave them alone…they take root, and then they lead to bigger things. And so, although in our family of churches, taking time off is not something that’s really encouraged, because we had such a strong leader in Pastor Chuck, who had such a work ethic and such an intense focus, he did take a time off, but a lot of it was “ministry-related time off”, which really isn’t time off. It’s not quite the same thing. As my wife continually reminds me.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
As my wife also reminds me. It’s not the same, I mean, really, it isn’t.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Well, yeah. But in thinking how Paul dealt with Timothy in his last letter, Timothy had been in Ephesus for quite some time, and Paul’s…the thing that stands out. He says, “therefore, I remind you to stir up the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of hands…of my hands” (2 Tim 1:6). And the question is, “what’s that look like?” What does he mean, “stir up the gift of God, which is in you?” What does that mean? Is there a need to take some time away to stir up the gift of God? Which really, when you look at Jesus first letter to the seven churches of Asia, they had all the work down, but they “left their first love” (Rev 2:4). And it’s out of that love passion, that work flows. And when that becomes secondary or like a side issue, like “peas in your main entree,” then you’re headed for trouble. If you don’t like peas, I’m sorry.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
I know you don’t like to mix your food. I’ve eaten dinner with you. I know you like it “all separate.”
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
But, “time away,” is something that’s essential for the long game.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Yes.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
And if you don’t take that time away, I mean…I know the arguments and I know the mindsets. I’ve been there. I’ve lived it. And there could be some valid reason, “Well, I’ve got nobody to take my church.” But you’ve been there 25 years, and you still have 50 people. And so I know it’s tough, but find someone that can fill in, because you, for the long game, you’re in it for the long game. You need to get away. Just “you and the Lord.” Or, maybe “you and your wife and the Lord,” and just reconnect with those basics. I’m not talking so much about perseverance and endurance and all that, but I’m talking about revitalizing your relationship with the Lord because it’s a living relationship like it is with any person. It’s a personal relationship with the Lord, not a vocation. Or your high school counselor said you’d be good at this. No, it’s a relationship with the person of Jesus Christ and God the Father. And if that doesn’t…if that’s not kindling the flame, “stir up the gift of God, which is in you by the laying out of my hands,” that’s the Holy Spirit coming upon you and just lighting the fire. It’ll look different as you get older. I mean, you need to “work smarter, not harder,” as you get older, because your physical strength isn’t going to be there.
Pastor Ed Taylor
It’s a great question. I’ve thought about it since it was sent to me. If I’m 25 years into it, what would I tell a guy at the 20-year mark where he’s at right now? A couple of things, I think. Number one, what you’re feeling right now is normal. This is a normal result of grinding away faithfully enduring, persevering in ministry, already. So where you have arrived is not necessarily a place of weakness. It’s not necessarily a place of failure. It’s not necessarily any reflection upon the quality of your ministry. It’s a season. And these seasons come and go. If I was telling the same pastor, day one, the very first time, the day he’s excited, the days he’s putting out the signs, the days that, “hey, I’ll put the chairs up and then I’ll go do the soundboard, and then I’ll go do the sound check, and I’ll teach and I’ll play the drums, and whatever I’ll do,” it’s like, just pace yourself, because not every Sunday is going to feel like this. Not every month is going to feel like this. Not every year is going to feel like this. So learn how to pace yourself. Whether that means you take regular breaks along the way, whether that means you, get that…you get to the place where you not only take regular breaks, but you have specific vacation times or whatever. Rest is a big part of it. Pacing is a big part of it. But also, this is normal feeling like “you don’t want to do it anymore.” Totally normal. You know, I think sometimes when I’m giving advice, the response will be, “well, you have a big church,” and “you have a big staff,” and “you have…” And there’s a lack of understanding that a larger church or even a team that’s coming along, it just means more, not less. So if I was tired when were 100 people, then I’m going to be really tired when I have x amount of people, because now it’s more, not less. So more help means more work, more discipleship, more accountability, more. That’s how every pastor’s dream is. “More, more, more.” And maybe God’s will is more, but the reality is more means more. More of everything. More problems, more difficulties, more discipleship, more people quitting, more people leaving. And so when you’re listening to this as a pastor or a leader, I just want you to remember this is proportionate. So is your smaller church or medium-sized church compared to a large church, whatever that looks like. Remember the problems? We all feel the same exact problems. They’re just proportionate. And some guys, you might look at him and go, “well, that guy, you know, he has a different…I never hear anything.” Well, he’s just not sharing it. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t feel it. He’s just not sharing it. You know, I’ve…I know, “so-and-so, he’s just feels, like, at a grind?” Well, you know, he’s just not telling you. But I’m sure that he feels the same way. And I appreciate this, “don’t give the standard answers of endurance and perseverance.” And maybe, again, this is like when I do the live radio here and I have a live call-in show, sometimes people text questions in, and I’ll say, “you know what? That’s a better question to talk about,” because I don’t know where you want me to go with it specifically. And I think this is one of those questions where I don’t know where you want me to go with it, because endurance and perseverance. Do you mean that? You got advice once, “just put your head down.” It’s no big deal. We all get tired. Well, that’s not true. Endurance and perseverance, actually, because true biblical endurance and perseverance would be an empowering of the Lord. Like we spoke about in an earlier episode, God both works “to will, and to do” (Phil 2:13). And that. there…I think it was Warren…I know it was Warren Wiersbe, but I can’t remember the exact title. But he talked about ministry, and he used the word plodding. Sometimes men, what is it?
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
“In Praise Of Plodders,” Warren Wiersbe.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
And that is ministry sometimes, and plodding is like, “Man, I don’t want to do this; this is too hard; it’s challenging, and how can I get over it?” Sometimes you don’t get over it. You get through it. And when I spoke on, I taught at a conference once on difficulties in ministry, I used this illustration of “seasons,” because in Colorado we have four distinct seasons. They see them and they’re all distinct. So you got winter and then you got spring, and then you have summer and then you have fall and winter comes up again and each one of them leads into the next. And what is described here for my brother right now sounds like a “winter season.” A challenging season. Probably not completely, like, “I’m done and I’m giving up!” But it’s one of those challenging seasons and winters you really do need to learn how to endure, especially when you don’t like them. Like, you’re just like, okay, is it winter? Like, I was even so hopeful because we got this heavy snow recently that’s like the snow you usually get at the end of the season and like, “Oh, maybe it’s going to end early.” And everyone goes, “No, no!” And so you’re just like, “going to shovel some more, put gas in my snowblower, and freeze and hopefully I don’t slip on ice.” And then I just know one day it’s not going to snow anymore. Like, yes. And springtime comes right after a winter time. You’re…and it doesn’t even have to be enduring as much as it is waiting. You know spring’s coming and you’re looking for the trees, you’re looking for them to sprout you. You’re looking for a green in your grass because, you know, once the first color comes, it’s just going to explode. The colors are going to be colorful again and you get to enjoy the springtime. Spring is a fun time and ministry has fun time. That’s when people get saved again and baptized and churches grow in their springtime and then springtime winds down, I mean, actually accelerates up into summertime, which is kind of euphemistic for the best of the best. Summertime is beautiful. And then summer times wind down into the fall. Everything starts to die again, the leaves fall off the tree, and another winter. And so if I was telling someone that’s earlier on in ministry, the number one thing is “this is normal and it’s going to pass.” And I would say if it doesn’t pass, then you really have to consider whether this is what God wants you to do. And it doesn’t mean necessarily that you have to stop pasturing. But if you’re a senior pastor, maybe the Lord’s showing you that senior pastor, lead pastor isn’t for you. Maybe you do better as an assistant and a support, or maybe you do better what you’re doing right now, traveling, encouraging other churches, providing…maybe…I ‘ve seen some of my friends go back into the business world, and then they go back to their career. And that’s not necessarily quitting. Like, because we associate everything…“you got the call, and you’re going to do this. And if you do anything other than this, you’re a quitter.” No, you’re following the leading of the Lord.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
It’s a sidestep, not a backstep. Not necessarily. I mean, right, it depends on the situation. But I mean, for some people, when the “leaves fall off the trees,” it’s like disaster. You know, my ministry’s done well. Wintertime, okay, there’s no “proof of life,” but the roots are going deeper.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Right, it’s all underground.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Yeah. And so you have to ask the question for somebody, 20-30 years pastoring, “What season are you in?” What do you see? Is it winter? Is it fall?” And just those questions are so important because you’re in it for the long haul. You’re in it for not what you can get out of it. But what has the Lord directly called you to do? And “feed my lambs, tend my sheep, feed my sheep” (John 21:15-17). And so, “yeah, but they’re leaving.” Well, “feed my lambs, tend my sheep, feed my sheep.” Because it’s all about “faithfulness to the One.” And stop comparing yourself to the business models of the world or to your colleagues who, “How come their church, just like it, explodes. And I’ve been at this for 20 years, and I’m still back to, you know, 100, less than 100 people. And is that just a sign I should quit?” And by the way, I have heard it said at conferences that “if your church is 50 or less, don’t call yourself a church. You’re just a home Bible study.”
Pastor Ed Taylor:
So dumb.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
I mean, and the reverberation, the shock upon some of those with smaller churches that were there just to try to get some encouragement. Oh, it was not good.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
I like what you said here. If we’re going to assess seasons, we lose perspective. I mean, I’ve been doing this for 25 years. At least once a year, the ministry at this particular church that I serve gets so challenging that I don’t want to do it anymore. It’s a regular emotion. It’s something that can be verbalized or processed in prayer or a conversation with my wife, where it isn’t a statement of quitting. And I have a feeling that’s what this is in my friend’s text. It’s not a statement of quitting. It’s just a statement of the present reality. And maybe it is a winter season. I just don’t want to do this anymore. You know as I was reading through, “not using delegation to hide the fact.” Well, I would never use delegation to hide anything. Delegation is a different tool. You know, delegation is…is not to hide something. When I delegate, it’s. It’s meant to multiply. It’s not meant to subtract, it’s meant to multiply. It’s. It’s meant to share the burden that if I’m carrying a burden and I share it with you, I’m…it’s 50% less if you got half of it and I got half of it. And then we have a third person and a fourth person. The delegation and the discipleship is designed to help, but even then, sometimes guys will get frustrated because they’re like, “I just can’t find, faithful men.” I can’t find faithful men. And, and that in one respect that’s true, but in another respect, we might have different expectations. You remember when Jesus, He talked about the numbers…and I want to…I hope I get the numbers. Was it “30, 60, 100-fold?” 30, 60, and 100. Sometimes what…what a leader is describing is, “I can’t find any 100s.” There’s a lot of 30s and a lot of 60s, but “what I need is 100s.” And we all desire 100s because a senior pastor, a lead pastor, is going to be a high “100-type” of faithful man. But we have to remember that a 30, a 60, and 100, are all equal. And they’re equal not in their capacity, but in their faithfulness.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Right?
Pastor Ed Taylor:
So a “30 person,” that comes and produces 30 should be treated just as well as a “100 person,” that’s producing 100. And one thing that I’ve learned over the years…and I had to learn the hard way…‘cause I understand the perspective here is, “sometimes you need 30…you need three 30s, three people that are 30-fold producers and faithful to match…and that doesn’t even quite match…the 100.” But you’re not gonna get 100, but you can get three 30s or you can get a 60 and a 30. Like, there are a mixture of people…as a pastor…and I like what Pastor Skip Heitzig taught us. He said that a pastor’s role is sometimes best compared to a “divine talent scout,” where we’re looking for those to help and then putting him in the right place. Like, if they’re a right fielder, they shouldn’t be a catcher. We should keep them in right field and put the catchers in the catchers…that way everybody can be who the God made them to be, and we get to be used. And, so, sometimes, where this frustration…because, again, every church is going through this. It doesn’t matter what they post, what they look like on Instagram, whatever. Every church goes through this. Where there is endurance, there is perseverance. But how do I lead with passion and vision? I really come back to that place where I first started.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
And that’s what Elijah had to do when he lost his vision. You never hear of the servant again. I mean, what kind of testimony is that? It’s amazing. And he ends up over in Mount Sinai, you know, moaning and moaning. And what happened is the Lord gave him fresh vision (1 Kings 19:11-18).
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Yeah.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Kind of “dealt with him.” Gave him fresh vision, sent him on his way, and he was effective. But he had to get that fresh vision…but he had to get away from the middle of what he was doing to catch the fresh vision. And so that’s my take on. I mean, even the land was told to “rest after six years” (Lev. 25:1-7). They were to rest every seven years. So God understands that whole…because it’s longevity that He’s into. And so there are resources that you can draw upon to be able to take a break for the purpose of getting your vision renewed.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
You’ve mentioned that a couple of times. And rest is…and not just “ministry rest,” but true, unplugged. That’s a commitment that we’ve made, Marie and I, just for our marriage. I didn’t even actually do it when I first started getting away…just Marie and I…with the church in mind at all. My marriage needed it. We wanted to celebrate our anniversary, and I am one of those guys that just plodded and plodded and didn’t take a lot of time off. And I did take time off. It was “ministry-related.” And then our anniversary came up, and I’m like, “we need to unplug. We need to be apart from the kids. We need to be apart from my responsibilities.” And it’s just me and her, and it’s been very beneficial and extremely fruitful over the years. We’ve tried to do it every year since. And it…it benefits the church. And I always like to come back and tell the church, “a happy pastor with a strong marriage is a very big benefit to the church.” And, you know, one of the things I lean into, too, just kind of finishing up on this, is there…I “lean into my strengths,” during these times, not my weaknesses. And so, one of my strengths is leadership. So I pray for a fresh approach to leadership. I pray for a fresh word. I pray. I pray. And God usually gives it to me in the beginning of the year. I don’t, like, “have a scripture verse.” I’ve never been where I have a verse for the year. But typically God will give us a song that kind of becomes our anthem for that year or two and a direction in the Word that first ministers to me, and then I share it with the church, and then it gets stirred up where it starts like a catalyst. Once you start the ball rolling, it continues. And so that’s been helpful. How do I lead with passion and vision? Sometimes I don’t lead with passion and vision. I just lead. Or, after my son passed away, I didn’t lead at all. I didn’t have any…I could barely “show up,” for a couple years. I could barely show up and teach. And the team around me, they carried a lot of the weight, but they’re not gifted like me. So they got tired, and it was hard and people left, and it was challenging. And then over time, in God’s perfect timing, he awakened that gift again, and it helped. But I’m not the leader I was before. I’m a different man. And that’s not necessarily bad. I’m just learning to embrace the new person that God is…but sometimes I don’t lead with passion or vision. I just lead. And sometimes I don’t lead with passion or vision or lead at all. I just keep taking one step forward. I just take the next step, and I fall back on the things that I know God blesses. So if I can’t lead or I can’t correct or I can’t…even on a smaller scale, you know, “I just can’t deal with that tonight.” Then I won’t deal with it. But I will lean into the things I know He blesses. He blesses prayer, He blesses the teaching of His Word, He blesses taking care of the flock; caring for them more than myself. And even if I don’t see immediate benefits, it gets me through these seasons where right now, I’m not in one of those seasons, and I’m grateful for it. But it hasn’t been too long where I’m just, “I don’t know if I want to do this any more.” And it’s not a statement of quitting. I’m not interested in quitting, but I think I have to really answer that question. “Well, Ed, what are you dealing with? What is it? Like, are you just exhausted? Are you…” You know, like, whatever it may be, there’s a variety of different things, but I hope this helps…just talking it out…and sometimes talking it out like this just helps.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Sure.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
You’re just like, oh, okay. I’m not. You know, I’m not strange. You know, we’re all feeling it.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Yeah. And there’s a lot of peer pressure. There’s a lot of peer pressure. Over the years, I’ve…I’ve felt it. I have yielded to it. I have…and that all that does is bring…it “kicks the can down the road” and creates interest…it comes back with interest. And I think moving out of the country to England was super healthy for me, giving me a much broader perspective of the body of Christ, bigger than me.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
Yeah. Appreciate you guys giving us your requests. I hope it helps. It’s a great question, and it’s worthy of a lot more time. But we’ve come to the end of the episode today. I know one more thing that I’ve been doing this year that I’ve never done before, and I shared this with the church last night. That I’ve been…Last year, I was teaching, and I kept hearing the Ephesians “post-it-note,” from Jesus, “remember, from where you have fallen; repent and repeat” (Rev 2:5). I kept sharing that with the church. Sharing it with the church. And you share that and you’re looking in the mirror. “Is that for you, Ed?” And I sense the Holy Spirit was saying, “that is for you.” But not, like, I…not because I’m in sin or anything, but I needed refreshment, and I didn’t know it. I didn’t know I needed refreshment. So I took that scripture and applied it very literally. And I went back to where, when I was a new believer, and I had a friend of mine, and he and I, together, we compiled a playlist of the music that formed me as a new believer, taking me back to the 90’s. The music that I listened to, that my kids heard on the radio, that really was formative in my life. And, the other thing that was formative back then is “I listened to the radio a lot.” So I picked the five pastors that I listened to the most, which most of them I still do. But that’s all I’ve been listening to. And I’ve committed myself to listen to those studies all year here. All year. So it’s Pastor Jeff Johnson, Pastor Raul Reese, Pastor Skip Heitzig, Pastor Chuck Smith, and Pastor Ray Bentley. Because I had these long commutes in California for many years, and “radio was my discipleship.” And so I’ve taken that and applied it in my life. Kind of what my brother here is talking about, where I want to stir up passion. Some old songs have popped up that really speak to my heart, like, I haven’t heard them in forever. ‘Cause you don’t hear them. We’re not singing them. They’re not on the radio. And we’ve kind of moved on to more contemporary music, which is great. But these songs formed me. So I’m not thinking, “We need to sing them.” I need to sing them. Like, I don’t think our church needs to sing them. I need to sing them. And so I’m like, whoa. And I’m listening to this song that was written at my home church, and I’m starting to cry because I remember, like, those days. Like, those days. I….I always tell Marie, I say, “Man, those were simpler days.” And she goes, “No, they weren’t.” Like, she just, no, they weren’t. They were just hard in a different way. I’m like, “I know, honey, but in ministry, they were simpler days.” Those were the days I longed for…what I’m “tired of,” today.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Sure.
Pastor Ed Taylor:
And I’m like, “what is, Lord?” You know? I want to get back to longing for more ministry. I want to get back…I didn’t know church was so hard. I didn’t know ministry was so hard. I wanted it so badly. Now that I got it, I don’t want it so badly anymore. But, man, what God’s stirring up is, no, I do want it, but it’s not…it’s not a church and it’s not size, and it’s not planting a church or “having a name for myself,” or “being a Calvary Chapel.” None of the things that I thought I wanted do I want. I just want to please the Lord. I want to serve this precious group of people that he’s entrusted to me. I want to do well. I want to serve the staff and the team and the lay leaders, and I can only do what I can do. But going back like that, what He told the…like, I didn’t know. I don’t really think I left my first love, but I sure did leave a lot of elements of my first love that God’s adding back. And I’m like, yeah, there was a day when I was desperate for the things of the Lord, and now I’m tired in the things of the Lord and it’s normal. But I want the desperate back.
Pastor Bob Claycamp:
Yeah, and that’s part of getting back to basics in your life. Keeping it simple but going deeper. Keeping it simple doesn’t mean you’re weak or immature. I think a better word is to become “more uncomplicated.”
Pastor Ed Taylor:
I agree. Well, thanks again for joining us this episode. Maybe you have some ideas on these topics, send them our way. Maybe you have a topic you’d like us to talk about or anything that you think would make this more helpful and more fruitful. We’d love to hear from you. This is the Lead2Serve podcast. It’s recorded live from the studios here at Grace FM at Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado. In-studio for this season has been Pastor Bob Claycamp, my name is Ed Taylor. Love to hear from you. Text me 720-608-0012, or email me, ed@edtaylor.org. You can get Bob at bob@bobclaycamp.com. Again, I know we’re speaking fast. You can always rewind it. But just connect with us. We’ll connect back with you. We would love to serve you, encourage you. And let me just say, talking about these things together has been encouraging for us, been ministering to us. It’s been helpful to us. And our church here will benefit from these discussions because God will make us better men and better leaders as we talk these things out. So thank you guys very much for your collaborative effort in being a part of the Lead2Serve / Calvary Church family. God bless you guys. Until next time.
Outro VO:
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Lead2Serve with Pastor Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado. If you have a leadership question you want to hear answered on a future Lead2Serve podcast, please email it to pastored@calvaryco.church
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